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Youths 'shooting ducks in park'
1:31pm Wednesday 30th April 2008
Comments (26)TWO children were distraught to see three youths armed with two air rifles carrying a dead duck through the Sale park they were playing in.
Danielle Galvin and Ash Patel, both aged 12, were at Woodheys Park when they saw the three youths holding the bird by its feet.
Danielle's mother Wendy, whose house backs on to the park, explained how her daughter returned home devastated on the evening of April 7. She said: "She can not get that image out of her head and was extremely distressed. I called the police to report it.
"I can't believe this is going on where children are playing. What if a pellet went in a child's eye? It's only a matter of time before someone is injured."
This is just one of a string of shootings in the vicinity of the park. In early March Wendy's neighbour, Carol Howard, was woken at around 2am by loud noises. Wendy added: "Carol looked out of her window and saw a group of youths with dead ducks and birds over their shoulders shooting at anything that moved in the woods."
Most recently, on April 23, Wendy heard a shot and found a pellet imbedded in her back window.
Neighbourhood inspector Simon Wright, said: "The thoroughfare through Woodheys Park has attracted young people who congregate there, which is a cause for concern.
"The incident was reported and enquiries are being made."
Wendy said: "The area needs to be gated. It was fenced off around 18 months ago but then it was taken away."
If anyone has any information about any of the incidents call Atrincham Neighbourhood Policing Team on 0161 856 7527 or 0161 856 7530.
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M.Dean, says...
4:10pm Thu 1 May 08
Jack Dyman, Chester says...
4:22pm Thu 1 May 08
Oh well, better just add some more laws then, I suppose. Because that is all our current government is good for; empty-headed legislation.
I quite agree with your correspondent above. If caught, these youths should be given a nasty surprise and banged up for a few years. Under existing laws
Ewen McMillan, Wigan says...
4:36pm Thu 1 May 08
Perhaps if the parents were criminally responsible for the actions of their children up to the age of 16, then they might enforce better control over them?
andy, midlands says...
4:36pm Thu 1 May 08
i hope these youths are caught and dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.
S Smith, Dundee says...
6:19pm Thu 1 May 08
Cliff Ennis, Liverpool says...
9:20pm Thu 1 May 08
Telfer Dickson, Brent Knoll says...
10:40pm Thu 1 May 08
And there are more morons about. Aggressively bald, earringed morons who can breed alright, yet don't know how to bring children up properly.
If,for example, the BBC so-called news wasted less time shouting about issues in furtherance of its own political agenda, we might actually stay on the stories which mattered, such as Zimbabwe, homelessness, the truth behind the Iraq war and the total fraud that is anthropomorphic climate change.
Yes, the misuse of airguns is a menace, when it happens. So - use the laws we have and punish those who misuse them. But please, no more silly bans on things.
Nick, WORCS says...
11:34pm Thu 1 May 08
I do a lot of Airgun shooting and this kind of thing really gets on my nerves, not just because I am an animal lover in general but also because everytime something like this happens it makes my sport look worse and worse.
We need to enforce the already tight firearm laws, not add new ones as going by the current state of affairs they won't get enforced either.
Take a hard line on law breakers, ban the from ever owning any type of weapon ever again on top of whatever punishment they should get for armed tresspass etc.
Alan Hume, Dundee says...
11:35pm Thu 1 May 08
Alan Hume, Dundee says...
11:45pm Thu 1 May 08
It's all Maggie Thatchers fault anyway.
Matt, Altrincham says...
9:59am Fri 2 May 08
Rob M from Derby; you have absolutely no evidence that these children were 'foreign', nor do you have evidence that immigrants fish in our canals and lakes for food.
Why are these airguns in the hands of children? Probably because adults bought them for them, as they are 'responsible airgun owners' and the children were then either given them, or took them without asking.
M Dean, Altrincham says...
10:46am Fri 2 May 08
Matt wrote:Matt, you appear to need a dictionary, buy one then look up the word "responsible" adults giving children access to airguns unsupervised is "irresponsible" see the difference? my guns are kept under lock and key and I'm the only one who has access to them, as for the number of airgunners responding to this story that is because I posted a link on a website which is about airguns.
I\\\'m intrigued as to the fact that the Messenger website appears to be read so frequently by air gun enthusiasts from accross the nation. Rob M from Derby; you have absolutely no evidence that these children were \\\'foreign\\\', nor do you have evidence that immigrants fish in our canals and lakes for food. Why are these airguns in the hands of children? Probably because adults bought them for them, as they are \\\'responsible airgun owners\\\' and the children were then either given them, or took them without asking.
Rob M, Derby says...
11:19am Fri 2 May 08
I think Matt, that you are an anti-gun fanatic who does not knwo what you are on about. You didn't read my post thoroughly yet took me to task on it, then you say that 'responsible airgun owners' would give airguns to minors. You are wrong on both counts. Responsible airgun owners (of which there are literally millions in the UK) keep their airguns out of the hands of minors and have just as much right and inclination to condemn illegal yob bahaviour as everyone else.
Daisy Duck, Trafford water park says...
11:59am Fri 2 May 08
But if they shoot me for the pot is that alright?
And surely taking fish for food is far more natural than catching them for fun and throwing them back again
Rich, Southampton says...
12:48pm Fri 2 May 08
Daisy Duck wrote:No Daisy, I would hope they get locked away for many years for armed assault.
Just for my own wellbeing, if someone shoots me for fun is that illegal?
But if they shoot me for the pot is that alright?
And surely taking fish for food is far more natural than catching them for fun and throwing them back again
As for catching for the pot, you are correct in that it is natural, and indeed, often a tastier option than reared food from shops. Responsible airgunners who (with permission) perform vermin control duties for farmers and land owners (who are legally obliged to keep pest numbers down, given that humans have removed wolves and many birds of prey from the ecosystem) on private land will take their bag home for the pot - bit of fresh rabbit goes down a treat :-)
However, fishing ponds are generally managed on the basis that the catch will be returned. Removal of the stock is not sustainable. If they were managed otherwise, then it might be. But they're not.
As for the article, the youths were:
(i) In possession of a firearm illegally (i.e. underage)
(ii) Carrying a firearm in a public place without good reason
(iii) Recklessly discharging a firearm (if they're the same ones that put a pellet in the window)
(iv) Hunting without written permission from the landowner (i.e. the council - i.e. armed tresspass)
That rap sheet is enough, on paper, to send them away for 10 years, even using the CURRENT legislation. But the courts won't . You can add more and more laws, ban airguns, but till the courts actually uphold the law and provide a deterrent, it all means nothing. It's just words in a book in Parliament.
Oh, also, it's an offence to make a gift of a firearm or ammunition to someone underage (i.e. giving them to someone you know cannot legally hold them), so if they catch these idiots, will they please take the parents, or whoever supplied them with the kit to task as well. Whoever supplied them was not a responsible adult. None of them were. They can all be hamstrung by the courts. But they won't be, and it'll just happen again. :-(
Matt, Altrincham says...
2:01pm Fri 2 May 08
M Dean wrote:Actually M Dean, if you read my post you'll notice I used inverted commas to surround the term 'responsible airgun owners' due to the disproportionately large number of people claiming to be such owners. This is an accepted feature of the English language which indicates that the term may not be correctly applied in this case. I don't doubt the true owners of the guns think they are 'responsible' too.
Matt wrote: I\\\\\\\'m intrigued as to the fact that the Messenger website appears to be read so frequently by air gun enthusiasts from accross the nation. Rob M from Derby; you have absolutely no evidence that these children were \\\\\\\'foreign\\\\\\\', nor do you have evidence that immigrants fish in our canals and lakes for food. Why are these airguns in the hands of children? Probably because adults bought them for them, as they are \\\\\\\'responsible airgun owners\\\\\\\' and the children were then either given them, or took them without asking.Matt, you appear to need a dictionary, buy one then look up the word \"responsible\" adults giving children access to airguns unsupervised is \"irresponsible\" see the difference? my guns are kept under lock and key and I\'m the only one who has access to them, as for the number of airgunners responding to this story that is because I posted a link on a website which is about airguns.
If everyone who owns an airgun really was 'responsible' then this news story would never have happened.
Is there any need to tell us over and over that the members of the website you linked to this story on do not shoot ducks and children? We get the point. Now what can be done to prevent people like this committing illegal acts in our towns?
Matt, it is a documented fact that some rivers and fishing lakes have had their stocks decimated by foreign fishermen who are ignorant of the fact that British fishermen return their catch to the water after weighing them, they come from countries where fish are caught for food, not just for the sake of fishing as they are here.
Documented where? It sounds like xenophobic propaganda to me. Immigrants apparently do not realise that privately owned land is private, and it's illegal to kill animals on this land. As most immigrants live in towns, I'm quite happy to say this is a blatent lie. Since you do not know the area, nor the people involved making any such statement is clearly unnaceptable.
I think Matt, that you are an anti-gun fanatic who does not knwo what you are on about.
One of the joys of living in our society is you are free to think whatever you want, even if you are wrong. If by 'anti-gun fanatic' you mean 'a person who does not think children should be armed with deadly, ranged weaponry' then yes, I certainly am.
Rob M, Derby says...
4:00pm Fri 2 May 08
The Professional Coarse Fisheries Association spokesman, Peter Cliff said: "The complaints are predominantly about Eastern Europeans who have come over to England and, of course, there is a different culture over here.
"They are quite happy to eat carp where we would never dream of it.
"Many I have spoken to express genuine surprise that they cannot take their catch home.
"It is impossible to tell how many fish have been taken but it is potentially thousands."
He said theft could have a devastating-effect on fisheries. "Anglers want to go to waters to catch the biggest fish and if they aren't there then they won't go."
Mr Cliff said fisheries needed to take action to stop immigrants taking fish. Many have put up signs in different languages warning anglers to throw back their catches.
He said: "Some are talking about putting up CCTV while others are getting the message across to their regular customers who act as honorary bailiffs and report any theft."
Trevor Johnson, of Bedfordshire's Upper Ouse Fisheries Consultative Association, said warning signs were often ignored. He said: "Not so long ago two eastern Europeans came and offered me money for the fish I had in my keep net.
====================
===
There are also many incidents reported on fishing forums reporting incidences of this type happening. Don't accuse me of being xenophobic, it just happens I work with some ardent fisherman who have personal experience of this.
Rob M, Derby says...
4:24pm Fri 2 May 08
We agree on something though, I too believe that airguns should be kept out of the hands of children, unless they are in a controlled, adult supervised environment. Your description of airguns as 'deadly ranged weapons' is frankly a bit pathetic though, while airguns can be lethal under certain rare and narrow circumstances, 'deadly' is very much overstating the danger. Also, an object is not a weapon unless it is misused as one, since only a tiny fraction of a single per cent of airguns are used against people, the term 'air weapon' is a complete misnomer! A couple of hundred years ago there was an air rifle that was designed as a weapon, but airguns as we know them today evolved from so-called parlour and gallery guns that were designed purely for target sports and amusement, so the term 'weapon' is completely wrong when applied to airguns, unless we are referring to extremely rare cases where airguns are misused. Like I said before, cricket bats and golf clubs are misused as weapons more often, but we don't call them 'cricket weapons' or 'golf weapons' do we?
Keith Oakes, Epping says...
4:36pm Fri 2 May 08
Bimble Wapthweed, says...
5:09pm Fri 2 May 08
Alan Hume, Dundee says...
1:00am Sat 3 May 08
As a socialist who welcomes gun control ( as long as it doesn't stop me shooting at targets with my air pistol ), may I say how awful it is that Ken Livingstone is no longer the mayor of London.
Mark, Sale says...
8:53pm Wed 7 May 08
They targetted the park as soon as the fence section was removed. What has since come to light is that these youths have been shooting on an area called the moss for a long time and pressure by local associations has moved them on as the police did not catch them.
Unfortunately to a well used and popular family park. They have been seen shooting during the day when the park was un-manned after a specified time, a well kept park has suddenly become subject to anti-social behaviour.
The sooner the fence is put back in place or gated the easier it will be for the police to catch those responsible.
The park is presently fully manned but only at the golf end and come the end of the pitch and putt season I dread to think what will happen.
Especially after last week a house backing onto the park having a window shot out with an air rifle.
Rob M, Derby says...
2:04pm Fri 9 May 08
fred, london says...
11:38pm Thu 15 May 08
quoteu need to sort your heads out leave the young lads alone least its keepin them off the streets.
paul, manchester says...
4:17pm Mon 19 May 08
Neighbourhood PC John Carr
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Anon, Trafford says...
8:26am Thu 1 May 08