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Is nothing safe from these louts anymore? You see toddlers walking throught town centres showing aggression towards pigeons of all things when they are nowhere near them.I have an elderley neighbour who regularly shoos away my cats from his garden(which isn't a problem in itself)it's the way he does it,nastily and not even bothering that he's shooing them into the road infront of children walking home from school. It's society and parents to blame,my children might come across as a bit soft but at least they are pleasant human beings.

As a responsible airgunner this story fills me with despair, why have "youths" got access to a airguns? When they are caught I sincerely hope that the full weight of the existing law is brought to bear in this case potentially 5 years in pison for armed trespass. No doubt this will make then think twice before pulling the trigger. I'm sure that this will add to the calls for a ban on airguns but what is really needed is enforcement of the already existing heavy penalties for such acts, I wish the police every luck in catching these morons and when they do al power to the judge to send them down.

Nice to see the government's copious firearms legislation really working. I thought the Violent Crime Reduction Bill was going to stop irresponsible use of airguns? Apparently not. Oh well, better just add some more laws then, I suppose. Because that is all our current government is good for; empty-headed legislation. I quite agree with your correspondent above. If caught, these youths should be given a nasty surprise and banged up for a few years. Under existing laws

I'm both an responsible airgun and shotgun user and the owner of pet ducks and geese, so you can imagine how this behaviour makes me feel. Perhaps if the parents were criminally responsible for the actions of their children up to the age of 16, then they might enforce better control over them?

as another responsible member of the airgun community i must say actions like these are a disgrace.the government makes all these laws but what use are they when they are useless. i hope these youths are caught and dealt with to the fullest extent of the law.

Like the other responsible air gun users that have already commented, I am disgusted by this idiotic misuse of airguns. I, too, sincerely hope these imbeciles are prosecuted to the full extent of existing legislation and end up in goal.

I am a 39 year old airgun user. I am a member of the BASC and use my airguns very responsibly. I shoot at paper and metal targets, for leisure and in competition. To give you an idea of my background, I have been a crew-member of ambulances in Liverpool for over 16 years. I have NO desire to be tarred by the same brush as these morons. I am a member of a club and I know a vast number of fellow shooters. There is a huge range of decent, law-abiding folk who use guns for legitimate sport. This kind of behaviour sickens ALL of us legal, responsible gun owners.

I can recall this kind of stupid thing happening in the seventies. The difference is, it just gets reported more nowadays. And there are more morons about. Aggressively bald, earringed morons who can breed alright, yet don't know how to bring children up properly. If,for example, the BBC so-called news wasted less time shouting about issues in furtherance of its own political agenda, we might actually stay on the stories which mattered, such as Zimbabwe, homelessness, the truth behind the Iraq war and the total fraud that is anthropomorphic climate change. Yes, the misuse of airguns is a menace, when it happens. So - use the laws we have and punish those who misuse them. But please, no more silly bans on things.

Shocking, hope these morons are convicted with everything the police can throw at them. I do a lot of Airgun shooting and this kind of thing really gets on my nerves, not just because I am an animal lover in general but also because everytime something like this happens it makes my sport look worse and worse. We need to enforce the already tight firearm laws, not add new ones as going by the current state of affairs they won't get enforced either. Take a hard line on law breakers, ban the from ever owning any type of weapon ever again on top of whatever punishment they should get for armed tresspass etc.

I belong to an airgun club and am absolutely furious when I hear of the law being broken by idiots who are putting my pastime at risk. As for shooting ducks in a public park, several sections of the law relating to airgun use have been broken and if these people are caught they deserve the full sentence prescribed by the law, and more.

None of these problems would happen in a properly run socialist state. Karl Marx didn't go around shooting ducks and neither does Fidel Castro. It's all Maggie Thatchers fault anyway.

I'm intrigued as to the fact that the Messenger website appears to be read so frequently by air gun enthusiasts from accross the nation. Rob M from Derby; you have absolutely no evidence that these children were 'foreign', nor do you have evidence that immigrants fish in our canals and lakes for food. Why are these airguns in the hands of children? Probably because adults bought them for them, as they are 'responsible airgun owners' and the children were then either given them, or took them without asking.

[quote][bold]Matt[/bold] wrote: I\\\'m intrigued as to the fact that the Messenger website appears to be read so frequently by air gun enthusiasts from accross the nation. Rob M from Derby; you have absolutely no evidence that these children were \\\'foreign\\\', nor do you have evidence that immigrants fish in our canals and lakes for food. Why are these airguns in the hands of children? Probably because adults bought them for them, as they are \\\'responsible airgun owners\\\' and the children were then either given them, or took them without asking.[/quote] Matt, you appear to need a dictionary, buy one then look up the word "responsible" adults giving children access to airguns unsupervised is [bold]bold[/bold] "irresponsible" see the difference? my guns are kept under lock and key and I'm the only one who has access to them, as for the number of airgunners responding to this story that is because I posted a link on a website which is about airguns.

Matt, it is a documented fact that some rivers and fishing lakes have had their stocks decimated by foreign fishermen who are ignorant of the fact that British fishermen return their catch to the water after weighing them, they come from countries where fish are caught for food, not just for the sake of fishing as they are here. In any case, I said I would not be surprised to learn they were foreign, I did not state it as fact that they were foreign, did I? As M. Dean posted above, anyone giving an airgun to someone under eighteen, or lending or allowing a minor (under 18 person)access to an airgun is hardly a responsible airgun owner, that is illegal, as is having an airgun in a public place without good reason, shooting where you do not have the landowner's permission is referred to as 'Armed Trespass' in law and carries a substantial fine and jail term. I just wish that some police on patrol had caught these villains and then some court dished them out a fair sentence instead of giving them a telling off and sending them on their way. I think Matt, that you are an anti-gun fanatic who does not knwo what you are on about. You didn't read my post thoroughly yet took me to task on it, then you say that 'responsible airgun owners' would give airguns to minors. You are wrong on both counts. Responsible airgun owners (of which there are literally millions in the UK) keep their airguns out of the hands of minors and have just as much right and inclination to condemn illegal yob bahaviour as everyone else.

Just for my own wellbeing, if someone shoots me for fun is that illegal? But if they shoot me for the pot is that alright? And surely taking fish for food is far more natural than catching them for fun and throwing them back again

[quote][bold]Daisy Duck[/bold] wrote: Just for my own wellbeing, if someone shoots me for fun is that illegal? But if they shoot me for the pot is that alright? And surely taking fish for food is far more natural than catching them for fun and throwing them back again [/quote] No Daisy, I would hope they get locked away for many years for armed assault. As for catching for the pot, you are correct in that it is natural, and indeed, often a tastier option than reared food from shops. Responsible airgunners who (with permission) perform vermin control duties for farmers and land owners (who are legally obliged to keep pest numbers down, given that humans have removed wolves and many birds of prey from the ecosystem) on private land will take their bag home for the pot - bit of fresh rabbit goes down a treat :-) However, fishing ponds are generally managed on the basis that the catch will be returned. Removal of the stock is not sustainable. If they were managed otherwise, then it might be. But they're not. As for the article, the youths were: (i) In possession of a firearm illegally (i.e. underage) (ii) Carrying a firearm in a public place without good reason (iii) Recklessly discharging a firearm (if they're the same ones that put a pellet in the window) (iv) Hunting without written permission from the landowner (i.e. the council - i.e. armed tresspass) That rap sheet is enough, on paper, to send them away for 10 years, even using the CURRENT legislation. But the courts [italic]won't[/italic] . You can add more and more laws, ban airguns, but till the courts actually uphold the law and provide a deterrent, it all means nothing. It's just words in a book in Parliament. Oh, also, it's an offence to make a gift of a firearm or ammunition to someone underage (i.e. giving them to someone you know cannot legally hold them), so if they catch these idiots, will they [italic]please[/italic] take the parents, or whoever supplied them with the kit to task as well. Whoever supplied them was not a responsible adult. None of them were. They can all be hamstrung by the courts. But they won't be, and it'll just happen again. :-(

[quote][bold]M Dean[/bold] wrote: [quote][bold]Matt[/bold] wrote: I\\\\\\\'m intrigued as to the fact that the Messenger website appears to be read so frequently by air gun enthusiasts from accross the nation. Rob M from Derby; you have absolutely no evidence that these children were \\\\\\\'foreign\\\\\\\', nor do you have evidence that immigrants fish in our canals and lakes for food. Why are these airguns in the hands of children? Probably because adults bought them for them, as they are \\\\\\\'responsible airgun owners\\\\\\\' and the children were then either given them, or took them without asking.[/quote] Matt, you appear to need a dictionary, buy one then look up the word \"responsible\" adults giving children access to airguns unsupervised is [bold]bold[/bold] \"irresponsible\" see the difference? my guns are kept under lock and key and I\'m the only one who has access to them, as for the number of airgunners responding to this story that is because I posted a link on a website which is about airguns.[/quote] Actually M Dean, if you read my post you'll notice I used inverted commas to surround the term 'responsible airgun owners' due to the disproportionately large number of people claiming to be such owners. This is an accepted feature of the English language which indicates that the term may not be correctly applied in this case. I don't doubt the true owners of the guns think they are 'responsible' too. If everyone who owns an airgun really was 'responsible' then this news story would never have happened. Is there any need to tell us over and over that the members of the website you linked to this story on do not shoot ducks and children? We get the point. Now what can be done to prevent people like this committing illegal acts in our towns? [quote]Matt, it is a documented fact that some rivers and fishing lakes have had their stocks decimated by foreign fishermen who are ignorant of the fact that British fishermen return their catch to the water after weighing them, they come from countries where fish are caught for food, not just for the sake of fishing as they are here.[/quote] Documented where? It sounds like xenophobic propaganda to me. Immigrants apparently do not realise that privately owned land is private, and it's illegal to kill animals on this land. As most immigrants live in towns, I'm quite happy to say this is a blatent lie. Since you do not know the area, nor the people involved making any such statement is clearly unnaceptable. [quote]I think Matt, that you are an anti-gun fanatic who does not knwo what you are on about.[/quote] One of the joys of living in our society is you are free to think whatever you want, even if you are wrong. If by 'anti-gun fanatic' you mean 'a person who does not think children should be armed with deadly, ranged weaponry' then yes, I certainly am.

Matt: A quick google threw up a great deal of information regarding immigrants decimating fish stocks, including this one: The Professional Coarse Fisheries Association spokesman, Peter Cliff said: "The complaints are predominantly about Eastern Europeans who have come over to England and, of course, there is a different culture over here. "They are quite happy to eat carp where we would never dream of it. "Many I have spoken to express genuine surprise that they cannot take their catch home. "It is impossible to tell how many fish have been taken but it is potentially thousands." He said theft could have a devastating-effect on fisheries. "Anglers want to go to waters to catch the biggest fish and if they aren't there then they won't go." Mr Cliff said fisheries needed to take action to stop immigrants taking fish. Many have put up signs in different languages warning anglers to throw back their catches. He said: "Some are talking about putting up CCTV while others are getting the message across to their regular customers who act as honorary bailiffs and report any theft." Trevor Johnson, of Bedfordshire's Upper Ouse Fisheries Consultative Association, said warning signs were often ignored. He said: "Not so long ago two eastern Europeans came and offered me money for the fish I had in my keep net. ==================== === There are also many incidents reported on fishing forums reporting incidences of this type happening. Don't accuse me of being xenophobic, it just happens I work with some ardent fisherman who have personal experience of this.

In any case Matt, let's not get off the subject of airgun crime here. You say that there are a disproportionately large number of people on here claiming to be responsible and law-abiding airgun shooters, well, we are standing up for ourselves and trying to put across to the non-shooting public that the vast amjority of airgun shooters are responsible people. The two airgun clubs I go to have been aroound for several decades now and have perfect safety records. According to Home Office stats, the likelyhood of an airgun being used illegally is less than 0.2%. There are literally millions of law-abiding airgun shooters in the UK, yet, all we ever hear about relating to airguns in the media is scare stories about yobs. In the last few yeasr I have seen airgunners raising money for the Ellie-May appeal, Help for Heroes, Cancer Research, wildlife and conservation charities, hospices, the list goes on and on, but all we ever hear about in the media is yobs misusing airguns. Airgun shooting is an olympic sport, and is also in the Commonwealth Games, and British shooters always do well, but the anti-shooting bias in the media means that few people know this. The scare stories in the media mean that people associate airguns with crime, which could not be further from the truth. It's a sad fact that you are more likely to be beaten up with a cricket bat than you are to be shot with an airgun, you are also more likely to be attacked with a golf club, you are more likely to be attacked with a baseball bat (freely available at all branches of 'toys-r-us'), UK Home Office stats again, but the bias against airgun shooters in the media, coupled with the fact that beatings with blunt-object weapons are so common nowadays means that airgun crime is much more likely to be reported than other more serious incidents. We agree on something though, I too believe that airguns should be kept out of the hands of children, unless they are in a controlled, adult supervised environment. Your description of airguns as 'deadly ranged weapons' is frankly a bit pathetic though, while airguns can be lethal under certain rare and narrow circumstances, 'deadly' is very much overstating the danger. Also, an object is not a weapon unless it is misused as one, since only a tiny fraction of a single per cent of airguns are used against people, the term 'air weapon' is a complete misnomer! A couple of hundred years ago there was an air rifle that was designed as a weapon, but airguns as we know them today evolved from so-called parlour and gallery guns that were designed purely for target sports and amusement, so the term 'weapon' is completely wrong when applied to airguns, unless we are referring to extremely rare cases where airguns are misused. Like I said before, cricket bats and golf clubs are misused as weapons more often, but we don't call them 'cricket weapons' or 'golf weapons' do we?

What has happened is truly abhorrant and the parents should be punished for their children committing these acts. I hope that the offences are dealt with swiftly with the full strength of the law. If the law was applied in this manner then maybe the parents would control their children better. I shoot responsibly with my air rifle and I would never let any children near it. Shooting is an enjoyable sport and it can be very benificial if enjoyed responsibly. It teaches discipline, improves concentration and is a good social outlet for many. Labelling responsible shooters a risk is just ignorance. Look at the handgun ban, handgun crime has tripled so punishing the law abiding does not benefit anyone.

Why don't you all get a bleeding life?

Does anybody know if these ducks were transgendered asylum seeking coal miners, put on the dole by Thatchers evil ? It wouldn't surprise me at all. As a socialist who welcomes gun control ( as long as it doesn't stop me shooting at targets with my air pistol ), may I say how awful it is that Ken Livingstone is no longer the mayor of London.

The youths who shot these ducks are regular visitors to the park. This has not been an isolated incident with at least 10 incidents of youths with guns reported in 2 months. They targetted the park as soon as the fence section was removed. What has since come to light is that these youths have been shooting on an area called the moss for a long time and pressure by local associations has moved them on as the police did not catch them. Unfortunately to a well used and popular family park. They have been seen shooting during the day when the park was un-manned after a specified time, a well kept park has suddenly become subject to anti-social behaviour. The sooner the fence is put back in place or gated the easier it will be for the police to catch those responsible. The park is presently fully manned but only at the golf end and come the end of the pitch and putt season I dread to think what will happen. Especially after last week a house backing onto the park having a window shot out with an air rifle.

These youths are committing a bunch of serious crimes that carry jail terms of up to five years and fines of up to £2000 per offence. Why aren't the police taking this more seriously? We don't need more laws about airguns, we just need the ones we already have enforcing! Where are the police?

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